034 IIc ECU

[Jeronkie]

Hi Guys

I have got a question ,,,so far I received very good response from them and read all the article available but I want to ask the question

Any experience with 034 IIc Engine management for the 1.8t

Please 

[sciroccoR]

i have the Ic.  it works well.  bob (of this forum) tuned it on an engine dyno.  it didn't have boost control, though and it is wasted spark but it made plenty of power.  ask bob his opinion, though.

[Jeronkie]

Thx ,Bob any input ??

[v84lnch]

i considered using the IIc as well. there are alot of options i wanted it did not offer. like, speed based launch control (it's an on/off switch, not oem clutch switch), wot shifting, wide band control (even ms has wideband control), gops are limited, shit goes on. not to mention, compared to other sem units in the same price range, it's like using the fisher price of sems. i would look into autronic or haltech. haltech fwiw now has knock control.

[Issam]

i considered using the IIc as well. there are alot of options i wanted it did not offer. like,
1. speed based launch control (it's an on/off switch, not oem clutch switch),
2. wot shifting, wide band control (even ms has wideband control),
3. gops are limited, shit goes on.
4. not to mention, compared to other sem units in the same price range, it's like using the fisher price of sems.
5. i would look into autronic or haltech. haltech fwiw now has knock control.

1. Correct on the no available speed based launch control but for the switch you use any switch including OEM clutch switch to trigger.
2. Yes It can do liftless shifting using auxillary input which can give timing retard (and extra fuel to keep that turbo nice and spooled).As for wideband,been there since last year...
3. GPO's?
4. Oh come on man...fisher price?wtf is this?034 offers degree based ignition with individual cyl timing and fuel trim, with on board high energy ignitors, haltech and autronic dont.Lets be real here....Autronic nor Haltech are not going to make you coffee Jay.
5. You should know better than ANYONE due to your indepth motronic knowledge that Aftermarket Knock detection is a farce, the tuning needed to discriminate between normal engine noise and real knock is beyond what the normal user can perform, and requires MANY hours of dyno time, as well as signal analyzer equipment that most people dont have access to.Then, if in fact you did have that equipment, the ECU would have to allow you the ability to tune the digital filter in order to make the system really work. Serious race tuners NEVER rely on OEM or aftermarket knock detection, they tune on an engine dyno, watch for peak torque to stop rising with more timing, then they pull a degree or so for safety.

 

[bobqzzi]

i considered using the IIc as well. there are alot of options i wanted it did not offer. like,
1. speed based launch control (it's an on/off switch, not oem clutch switch),
2. wot shifting, wide band control (even ms has wideband control),
3. gops are limited, shit goes on.
4. not to mention, compared to other sem units in the same price range, it's like using the fisher price of sems.
5. i would look into autronic or haltech. haltech fwiw now has knock control.

1. Correct on the no available speed based launch control but for the switch you use any switch including OEM clutch switch to trigger.
2. Yes It can do liftless shifting using auxillary input which can give timing retard (and extra fuel to keep that turbo nice and spooled).As for wideband,been there since last year...
3. GPO's?
4. Oh come on man...fisher price?wtf is this?034 offers degree based ignition with individual cyl timing and fuel trim, with on board high energy ignitors, haltech and autronic dont.Lets be real here....Autronic nor Haltech are not going to make you coffee Jay.
5. You should know better than ANYONE due to your indepth motronic knowledge that Aftermarket Knock detection is a farce, the tuning needed to discriminate between normal engine noise and real knock is beyond what the normal user can perform, and requires MANY hours of dyno time, as well as signal analyzer equipment that most people dont have access to.Then, if in fact you did have that equipment, the ECU would have to allow you the ability to tune the digital filter in order to make the system really work. Serious race tuners NEVER rely on OEM or aftermarket knock detection, they tune on an engine dyno, watch for peak torque to stop rising with more timing, then they pull a degree or so for safety.

 

First- no swearing on this forum- by anyone.  Discussions are to be purely technical in nature.

Issam is correct about the knock control- it really isn't something the average, or even advanced tuner can get working correctly. I bought in cylinder pressure sensing equipment just so I could tune mine in.

About the IIc- I just finished with one on the the dyno, and it is okay, but just okay.

The new boost control works very well with an N75- I was using a K03, and it was even able to tame the boost spike.

The support is generally very good- you can always get someone to respond to you, whether on the furum, by AIM or on the phone. That said there are some problems/unclear areas that are known, but not included in the manual.

It doesn't have wideband control.  It does accept a 0-1V signal from and external wideband controller like the innovate. Unfortunately it has a design glitch that makes it virtually unuseable; hopefully they will address this in the next update.

The interface is different than all the "normal" systems.  Not bad by any means, but if you are used to the "normal" ones it takes a while to figure out.

The form factoe of the box is awkward.

There is no 3D timing map...I find this really irritating.

You can't manipulate a map on your cpmputer unless you have it hooked to an ecu- this is a pain in the butt. You can power the ecu up with a 9V battery, but it still means you have to take the ecu from the car.

My major concern is with reliability. Given that you are in South Africa, I'd look closer to home so if you have problem help isn't half a world away.

[Jeronkie]

thx Bob 

[v84lnch]

i considered using the IIc as well. there are alot of options i wanted it did not offer. like,
1. speed based launch control (it's an on/off switch, not oem clutch switch),
2. wot shifting, wide band control (even ms has wideband control),
3. gops are limited, shit goes on.
4. not to mention, compared to other sem units in the same price range, it's like using the fisher price of sems.
5. i would look into autronic or haltech. haltech fwiw now has knock control.

1. Correct on the no available speed based launch control but for the switch you use any switch including OEM clutch switch to trigger.
2. Yes It can do liftless shifting using auxillary input which can give timing retard (and extra fuel to keep that turbo nice and spooled).As for wideband,been there since last year...
3. GPO's?
4. Oh come on man...fisher price?wtf is this?034 offers degree based ignition with individual cyl timing and fuel trim, with on board high energy ignitors, haltech and autronic dont.Lets be real here....Autronic nor Haltech are not going to make you coffee Jay.
5. You should know better than ANYONE due to your indepth motronic knowledge that Aftermarket Knock detection is a farce, the tuning needed to discriminate between normal engine noise and real knock is beyond what the normal user can perform, and requires MANY hours of dyno time, as well as signal analyzer equipment that most people dont have access to.Then, if in fact you did have that equipment, the ECU would have to allow you the ability to tune the digital filter in order to make the system really work. Serious race tuners NEVER rely on OEM or aftermarket knock detection, they tune on an engine dyno, watch for peak torque to stop rising with more timing, then they pull a degree or so for safety.

 

but i want coffee. 

[fast_a2_20v]

Haltech doesn't support anti-knock of any kind, in fact if you call them up in australia and suggest they add it, your liable to get an earful- they hate it as much as most serious tuners and will pretty much tell you they plan on never adding it.

Its great technology, but just far, far beyond the capabilities of the average tuner to set up correctly.

[v84lnch]

Haltech doesn't support anti-knock of any kind, in fact if you call them up in australia and suggest they add it, your liable to get an earful- they hate it as much as most serious tuners and will pretty much tell you they plan on never adding it.

Its great technology, but just far, far beyond the capabilities of the average tuner to set up correctly.

Yes! Finally closed loop knock control for Haltech ECU’s! Not to mention simultaneously pulling BOTH leading and trailing for rotary applications!

This means you can have the ecu automatically pull timing (1 to 8 degrees) when the engine begins to ping or detonate.

I designed and developed this circuit myself out of frustration with the lack of closed loop control in my E6K that I have on my ’87 Turbo II. Having rebuilt a few too many engines, I am very familiar with the ill effects of detonation.

I also once owned a $500+ J&S knock control computer but was disappointed with the lack of ability to retard the trailing timing and the limited control over the amount of timing pulled during a knock event.

This circuit is the solution to these problems.

This circuit will work with any Haltech ECU that has the timing trim feature (See List below). The knock box has a GM connector that plugs directly into the 3-prong trim connector of the Haltech harness. The other two wires leaving the box go to +12VDC and the output of the GM knock module.

The circuit is adjustable to pull between 1 and 8 degrees timing when experiencing knock. This circuit works very similarly to the J&S unit, where it immediately pulls timing upon a knock event and then slowly gives it back over a period of a few seconds. It will also re-pull the full amount if during the rebuild time more knock is experienced. However, this circuit will pull both the leading and trailing timing together so unlike the J&S unit you will not have to increase your split to avoid the very dangerous situation of firing the trailing first.

This unit will work with any 1-wire knock sensor. This unit also utilizes a GM ignition module. This is needed to convert the noisy, varying voltage, of the knock sensor output to a clean step pulse. This module can be found in nearly any GM car/SUV/truck manufactured in the late 80’s and early to mid 90’s with electronic ignition (see picture). It is located on the firewall and requires only a pair of side cutters and a nut driver to remove it. This takes about 5min. I have picked them up for between $5-10ea in junkyards. These modules can also be bought new for less then $50 but will not include the connector which makes it much easier to wire.

All knock box units are tested for functionality and pre-set to pull 4 degrees when experiencing knock. This value can be changed (between 1 and 8 degrees of retard) by simply adjusting a screw if desired.

A small amount of soldering is required for installation. There is no hard wiring to the ECU, the entire system can be disabled by unplugging the trim connector or simply disabling the feature in the software. It took about 30min to install the knock box and GM ignition module in my car. I will also include complete instructions and a wiring diagram for the entire system (knock sensor, GM module and knock box).

This knock box is compatible with Haltech ECU models:

E6X
E6K
E6S
E6GM
E6GMX
E8
E11

Here are two part numbers for the GM knock module that I know will work. There could be many more that will also work. I’m not even sure if the one I have is one of these. I got mine off an early 90’s Blazer and Astro van that I know work.

PN 16126761, $57
PN 16128261, $53

Found at: www.gmpartsdirect.com

This box is built with very quality electrical components, and is 100% soldered for the best possible quality. I test and set all units before shipping them, and they are guaranteed to work as described. If you are unhappy with it just return it within 30days for a full refund.

See pictures by searching "Haltech Knock Control" at a popular auction site.

-Justin

[Don®]

In regards to SEM's that do not feature or have the option of knock sensor tuning; Unitronic is North America's distributor for the Knock Box We have had great results with it using it in conjunction and validating our OEM ECU tuning with the OEM knock sensors. It's a great tool to have for those who are inclined and who understand knock sequences when tuning.

[Side-Step]

Hi Guys

I have got a question ,,,so far I received very good response from them and read all the article available but I want to ask the question

Any experience with 034 IIc Engine management for the 1.8t

Please 

If you are looking for a IIc with a Plug and Play harness, I have a Brand new one for sale.  Check the FI classifieds.  PM me if interest in it for 1600 including shipping. 

[bobqzzi]

Mike,

Did you decide to stay with stock injection?

[fast_a2_20v]

Haltech doesn't support anti-knock of any kind, in fact if you call them up in australia and suggest they add it, your liable to get an earful- they hate it as much as most serious tuners and will pretty much tell you they plan on never adding it.

Its great technology, but just far, far beyond the capabilities of the average tuner to set up correctly.

Yes! Finally closed loop knock control for Haltech ECU’s! Not to mention simultaneously pulling BOTH leading and trailing for rotary applications!

This means you can have the ecu automatically pull timing (1 to 8 degrees) when the engine begins to ping or detonate.

I designed and developed this circuit myself out of frustration with the lack of closed loop control in my E6K that I have on my ’87 Turbo II. Having rebuilt a few too many engines, I am very familiar with the ill effects of detonation.

I also once owned a $500+ J&S knock control computer but was disappointed with the lack of ability to retard the trailing timing and the limited control over the amount of timing pulled during a knock event.

This circuit is the solution to these problems.

This circuit will work with any Haltech ECU that has the timing trim feature (See List below). The knock box has a GM connector that plugs directly into the 3-prong trim connector of the Haltech harness. The other two wires leaving the box go to +12VDC and the output of the GM knock module.

The circuit is adjustable to pull between 1 and 8 degrees timing when experiencing knock. This circuit works very similarly to the J&S unit, where it immediately pulls timing upon a knock event and then slowly gives it back over a period of a few seconds. It will also re-pull the full amount if during the rebuild time more knock is experienced. However, this circuit will pull both the leading and trailing timing together so unlike the J&S unit you will not have to increase your split to avoid the very dangerous situation of firing the trailing first.

This unit will work with any 1-wire knock sensor. This unit also utilizes a GM ignition module. This is needed to convert the noisy, varying voltage, of the knock sensor output to a clean step pulse. This module can be found in nearly any GM car/SUV/truck manufactured in the late 80’s and early to mid 90’s with electronic ignition (see picture). It is located on the firewall and requires only a pair of side cutters and a nut driver to remove it. This takes about 5min. I have picked them up for between $5-10ea in junkyards. These modules can also be bought new for less then $50 but will not include the connector which makes it much easier to wire.

All knock box units are tested for functionality and pre-set to pull 4 degrees when experiencing knock. This value can be changed (between 1 and 8 degrees of retard) by simply adjusting a screw if desired.

A small amount of soldering is required for installation. There is no hard wiring to the ECU, the entire system can be disabled by unplugging the trim connector or simply disabling the feature in the software. It took about 30min to install the knock box and GM ignition module in my car. I will also include complete instructions and a wiring diagram for the entire system (knock sensor, GM module and knock box).

This knock box is compatible with Haltech ECU models:

E6X
E6K
E6S
E6GM
E6GMX
E8
E11

Here are two part numbers for the GM knock module that I know will work. There could be many more that will also work. I’m not even sure if the one I have is one of these. I got mine off an early 90’s Blazer and Astro van that I know work.

PN 16126761, $57
PN 16128261, $53

Found at: www.gmpartsdirect.com

This box is built with very quality electrical components, and is 100% soldered for the best possible quality. I test and set all units before shipping them, and they are guaranteed to work as described. If you are unhappy with it just return it within 30days for a full refund.

See pictures by searching "Haltech Knock Control" at a popular auction site.

-Justin

This isn't available from haltech, this is somebody that has made a box to plug into the trim pot and use the trim pot ignition advance / retard 0-5v with their aftermarket hardware. I run the latest e11 hardware / firmware, trust me, there IS NO KNOCK CONTROL, and I have had this discussion with the guys back in australia before, they WILL NOT implement it.

[v84lnch]

This isn't available from haltech, this is somebody that has made a box to plug into the trim pot and use the trim pot ignition advance / retard 0-5v with their aftermarket hardware. I run the latest e11 hardware / firmware, trust me, there IS NO KNOCK CONTROL, and I have had this discussion with the guys back in australia before, they WILL NOT implement it.

so this doesn't work? whether it's offered, seems SOMEONE HAS made it work.

[bobqzzi]

I'd say that the odds of that knock control working are about 1%, and I'm being generous.

[fast_a2_20v]

This isn't available from haltech, this is somebody that has made a box to plug into the trim pot and use the trim pot ignition advance / retard 0-5v with their aftermarket hardware. I run the latest e11 hardware / firmware, trust me, there IS NO KNOCK CONTROL, and I have had this discussion with the guys back in australia before, they WILL NOT implement it.

so this doesn't work? whether it's offered, seems SOMEONE HAS made it work.

You said something along the lines of even haltech ecu's support knock control... They don't, some guy homebrewed a kit and was selling it on ebay. I searched and it isn't even on there now. How much further from "the ecu doesn't support knock control" can you get?

Besides, I don't know a single SFWD guy who even wants knock control or bothers to run it, except for some K series guys who run k-pro and it comes setup from the factory.

[Wolk's_Wagon]

I've considered running the 034 IIc on my Audi TT and just have it control timing, fuel, and maybe boost.
Anyone have any experience going this route, and leaving everything else to be handled by Stock ECU?

What kind of pitfalls will I expect to encounter?

[Jeronkie]

LOTS 

Errors ,Drive by wire Don’t do it,

The standard ECU is very sensitive to change ,

I run a Audi S3 Quattro very similar to TT 225 with lots of modifications (GT30 ,Big port ,etc etc etc) and I am still using the standard management with other software

Rater go for Unitronic or something similar ,I have been down that road and it a dark road

[Wolk's_Wagon]

LOTS 

Errors ,Drive by wire Don’t do it,

Rater go for Unitronic or something similar ,I have been down that road and it a dark road

I hear you on that, just trying to keep my options open.

[v84lnch]

This isn't available from haltech, this is somebody that has made a box to plug into the trim pot and use the trim pot ignition advance / retard 0-5v with their aftermarket hardware. I run the latest e11 hardware / firmware, trust me, there IS NO KNOCK CONTROL, and I have had this discussion with the guys back in australia before, they WILL NOT implement it.

so this doesn't work? whether it's offered, seems SOMEONE HAS made it work.

You said something along the lines of even haltech ecu's support knock control... They don't, some guy homebrewed a kit and was selling it on ebay. I searched and it isn't even on there now. How much further from "the ecu doesn't support knock control" can you get?

Besides, I don't know a single SFWD guy who even wants knock control or bothers to run it, except for some K series guys who run k-pro and it comes setup from the factory.

actually, i didn't say haltech supported anything. re-read the post. just because it's not on ebay, means it CAN'T exist...i didn't see the op was setting up his car for sfwd. if sfwd doesn't do it, then it must not be worth it.