Need a goal for realistic power

[VariantStg3]

Alright, I need some help determining how much power can honestly be made with my current setup. I am an "Experienced Amateur" tuner that has made decent power in the past using Wolf 3d and now with Microtech. I am kinda in a vacuum here in Gainesville though, not too many other dubbers using standalone. I am trying to get a better understandning of how well/poorly I am doing.

So here are basic Specs:
Stock 1.8t (AEB)
AEB intake modified for transverse operation with a 4.5" D channel Port Matched
75mm Ford Throttlebody
RC 550cc High Impeadence Injectors
4 Bar Fuel Pressure Regulator - 3/8 in Fuel Line - Bosch CIS Fuel Pump
Stock AEB Coil packs - Microtech internal Ignitor
NGK BKR7E gapped .28
Jay Thorton Short Almost Equal Length Runners
Garret GT30R 76mm inducer .64 A/R 4" Anti-Surge Inlet
HKS 4" Air Filter
Tial 38mm Waste Gate plumbed back into stream 24" from turbo at 30° runnining 11 lb spring
Greddy Boost controller - Profec Type S Spec 2
3" V-band Exhaust full to the rear with Magnaflow 3" Straight through Muffler
PWR 6x10" Barrel Liquid to Air intercooler.
4 Gallon Ice Reservoir

Well thats about it. Sorry for the long post. I am thinking I should be able to make 340-350 Whp,

...any help determining if I am way off track is greatly apperciated.

[Dizzy]

More like 450whp.  Which 3076 is it?  I'm assuming the -11.  You have a lot more than 350whp that's for sure.  On a 3076-15 (60mm turbine), with horrible weather conditions, no fans, stock intake mani, throttle body, and small port head, a warped/leaking intake mani gasket, and a turbo to mani exhaust leak, I did 350whp at 26 psi on a race/pump gas mix.   You have an A/W IC and probably shorter piping, the bigger ports on the head and mani, and one of Jay's wonderful's manis.  Like I said, 450whp is obtainable on a solid tune with your setup. 

[VariantStg3]

Turbine
-Wheel: 60mm w/ 84 trim
-Housing: .63 ar

Compressor
-Wheel: 76.2mm w/ 56 trim
-Housing: .60 ar


Took these numbers right from ATP where the turbo was purchased. I believe I am a -15 as well. 450 WHP wow I am happy to hear it. I almost have the car back together so hopefully will be able to get to the dyno soon to start the new tune. Antone else want to chime in? See any weak points in me getting to 450Whp?

[Dizzy]

Correct, that's the -15.     It's rated to 525hp by Garrett.   

[v84lnch]

if you plan on pushing the motor further than 350whp, get bigger injectors. high imp injectors i think max out around 750cc. through RC. otherwise, you can run some low imp injectors. you'll have some more tuning on the idle, but the skys the limit. 

[VariantStg3]

Cool...The Microtech can run either High or Low so My next set will be low. I have been raing my injectors using BSFC of .60/5 and agree on the injectors. What size injectors makes normal idle impossible?

[bobqzzi]

Turbine
-Wheel: 60mm w/ 84 trim
-Housing: .63 ar

Compressor
-Wheel: 76.2mm w/ 56 trim
-Housing: .60 ar


Took these numbers right from ATP where the turbo was purchased. I believe I am a -15 as well. 450 WHP wow I am happy to hear it. I almost have the car back together so hopefully will be able to get to the dyno soon to start the new tune. Antone else want to chime in? See any weak points in me getting to 450Whp?

I don't think you'll get near 450 whp with stock camshafts.  Possible, but it would take lots of boost and race gas.   Those 55s are fine for 400 or so, but I'd consoder something larger.

[VariantStg3]

That was kinda what I was thinking. I figured cams would have to start to play a roll. With the stock cams should I still be looking for peak power at around 6500 RPM and still rev to 7500 RPM. Or do I need to push further.

I am running a timing curve like this:

Idle - 08°
1000 - 09°
1500 - 16°
2000 - 20°
2500 - 25°
3000 - 30°
3500 - 35°
4000 - 36°
4500 - 36°
5000 - 36°
5500 - 37°
6000 - 37°
6500 - 38°
7000 - 37°
7500 - 36°

Remember, I am an Amateur so if this looks wacky please feel free to flame away.

I am pulling about 1° of timing for every pound of boost until 12 lbs and then I follow the above curve minus 12°. This is on 100 octane unleaded.

My question is: Is this timing curve aggressive/average/minimal? I understand if noone wants to give away tuning secrets, but a little direction would be greatly apperciated.

[R32VWGTI]

off topic for a min what turbo do you guys recommod for my 2002 GTi I want around 400 - 500 hp

[bobqzzi]

off topic for a min what turbo do you guys recommod for my 2002 GTi I want around 400 - 500 hp

A 3076R .82 A/R is about right

[bobqzzi]

That was kinda what I was thinking. I figured cams would have to start to play a roll. With the stock cams should I still be looking for peak power at around 6500 RPM and still rev to 7500 RPM. Or do I need to push further.

I am running a timing curve like this:

Idle - 08°
1000 - 09°
1500 - 16°
2000 - 20°
2500 - 25°
3000 - 30°
3500 - 35°
4000 - 36°
4500 - 36°
5000 - 36°
5500 - 37°
6000 - 37°
6500 - 38°
7000 - 37°
7500 - 36°

Remember, I am an Amateur so if this looks wacky please feel free to flame away.

I am pulling about 1° of timing for every pound of boost until 12 lbs and then I follow the above curve minus 12°. This is on 100 octane unleaded.

My question is: Is this timing curve aggressive/average/minimal? I understand if noone wants to give away tuning secrets, but a little direction would be greatly apperciated.

The curve looks okay.

What management are you running?  Does it not feature a 3D timing map?

[VariantStg3]

I am running the Microtech System, it has a thing called Matrix tuning.

[VariantStg3]

If I run 114 octane how much timing should I be pulling. I am pulling up to 12° from a peak of 37° with 100 octane, can I reduce the pull a little?

Going  back to the dyno tomorrow, any help would be appreciated!!!!

[bobqzzi]

I dislike discussing timing in terms of "pull".  With good gas, you should be able to run 27/28 degrees with no problem. (assuming intake temps are under control.

[VariantStg3]

Thank you for responding. I appreciate your feedback more than most. I know this is no shock to you but most on the tex would rather keep everything secret and giggle a little as people post about explosions.

I am running a L/A intercooler with Ice water and during a full 4 gear pull the I reach 140-145°F at the top of 4th with 20 lbs. I am gonna run 25lbs and move toward a 27/28 degree timing at boost.

Thanks again for the help will post results!

[BoostdEuro]

off topic for a min what turbo do you guys recommod for my 2002 GTi I want around 400 - 500 hp

A 3076R .82 A/R is about right

that sounds right. what do you think lag is going to be like? 48000?

[VariantStg3]

I dislike discussing timing in terms of "pull".  With good gas, you should be able to run 27/28 degrees with no problem. (assuming intake temps are under control.

Thought I should post this update here. So with the new bits and the confirmation on timing we got to the 365FWhp mark. Timing numbers for the last few pulls were up to 24/25°. We tried 27° but didn't see any improvement in power so we backed it down. Need some advice on Boost control? Do most of the big horsepower cars run EBC or do it all with Springs? And if it is a combination of both do you want a spring that is closer to your final goal or further away. Meaning if I want to run 25 psi should I get a spring that will hold 20 lbs then get the rest with an EBC or do i run a 6 lbs Spring and use almost all EBC?

Any help appreciated of course.

[bobqzzi]

I think an ebc is the best way to go since you'll be able to program boost according to rpm (and possibly gear ratio).   My Tial 44mm gate came with an 11 pound spring and I was able to run 40 psi with no problem.  I don't think a stiff spring is wise since it sets a minimum which may not be low enough for all circumstances.

[VariantStg3]

I am using a greddy profec-b Spec 2 unit right now. Do you have a suggestion as to a better unit?

[bobqzzi]

I like the Apexi AVCR, but the profec is pretty nice too.  This engine is internally stock?

[VariantStg3]

Yes, it is out of a 98 Audi A4 (Code AEB). I am running a steel oil pan though, lol.

How much more room do I have? Once I get a better controller in it I am hoping to tune for 25 lbs and find another 20-30 HP. Don't know if three consistent pounds of boost can do that though.

[TommyBoyee]

This may be a foolish question but I'm also a very "amatuer" tuner. Because I just ruined a stock AEB engine yesterday. I didn't do my homework on connecting rods and bought a car that had all the right bits and dyno'd at 307. It blew up yesterday on the Gardiner after 88hrs recorded on the DTA standalone. I just got out from under it. # 2 con rod failure sure makes an ugly mess. Hindsight is clearest. I won't be wasting my time on stock internals. IMHO I only want to put a new motor in once so why risk a failure. 

[VariantStg3]

That Sucks!!!

...but I am not sure what your question is? Are you saying you want to know the right bits to build a proper 1.8t? Or are you saying, should my motor have popped at 307Whp?

to the first '?' the weak link is the rods, a bunch of folks drop rods into an AEB and head for 500 Bhp.

To the second, I know for a fact your motor did not break because of the internal parts unless you got the only junk one or on with a zillion miles on it. I will go out on a limp and say there was either not enough fuel or your timing curve didn't match up with your boost level.

NOT trying to hurt feelings.

Can you post dyno sheets and A/F numbers and the like...?

[Dizzy]

I am using a greddy profec-b Spec 2 unit right now. Do you have a suggestion as to a better unit?

I didn't read the whole thread, but I'd stick with the Profec B2.  AVCR only goes to 28 psi.   

[TommyBoyee]

Hey VariantStg3,

I'll gladly post up anything you'd like. I just don't want to highjack your thread. You are the second person that told me it should have been able to take 300 hp. I just wonder how long? I'm reasonably sure that this engine had made a few trips to the track. The PO lived about 10km away from a pro track.
I'm going to start a new thread. Good luck with yours. The only thing I know for sure is the weakest link in this engine it is the rods.

Tommy

[VariantStg3]

Bob,

OK gonna build this motor over the winter, hopefully sooner than later:

Crank: Stock AEB
Rods: Pauter (QED Supplied?)
Pistons: Mahle 81.50 (QED Supplied?)
Cams: CatCams 101 3653 (QED Supplied?)
Lifters: Hydro with Cat Springs (QED Supplied?)

Can I get to a reliable 600 CHp with this setup asuming the other bits will also support it. I will be shooting for 550CHp with the GT3076R I have now and with Microtech updated to run up to 40 PSI of Boost. I am also removing the exhaust system from the downpipe back making it a full out race car. I just want to make sure these bits will do the job...

 

[Don®]

Sounds good...Will this also include head work? port, polish with oversized valves?

[VariantStg3]

Man how I would love it to, but right now I am pushing the envelope as far as the budget goes.

Many threads say I don't even really need the pistons to do it, but the ones I am running right now have a few gashes from the preivious owners timing belt failure so I can't trust them. I am running a AEB head that has been (Self) port matched but that's it.

[bobqzzi]

Bob,

OK gonna build this motor over the winter, hopefully sooner than later:

Crank: Stock AEB
Rods: Pauter (QED Supplied?)
Pistons: Mahle 81.50 (QED Supplied?)
Cams: CatCams 101 3653 (QED Supplied?)
Lifters: Hydro with Cat Springs (QED Supplied?)

Can I get to a reliable 600 CHp with this setup asuming the other bits will also support it. I will be shooting for 550CHp with the GT3076R I have now and with Microtech updated to run up to 40 PSI of Boost. I am also removing the exhaust system from the downpipe back making it a full out race car. I just want to make sure these bits will do the job...

 

If you push the 3076 that hard, you'll destry the bearings.  I got 556 with a ported head and bigger cams.  You won't get 40psi from a 3076R at higher RPM, it's just out of air.  If you tune for 500CHP, you'll be in a good spot.

For 600, you'll need a 35R- I'd buy both a .67 and .82 turbine housing to see which offers the best compromise.

I don't sell Pauter rods- I have Carrilos A-beams which are roughly equivilent.

I can supply the other parts.

600hp on the staock AEB crank makes me a bit nervous..but it may be fine. It is really the rpm that starts to be a problem more than the power.

[VariantStg3]

Right. 40psi is what the ECU can tune to, but I hope I don't have to push any turbo that far. a 35R is def in the cards for the reliable 600.

On the crank, what options do I have there to make it stronger?