CAM SPECS (was CATCams 3651 - 245°/262° )

[Don®]

I just recently received my cast CATCams from Bobqzzi (thanks Bob  :thumbup: ) and wanted to show some details on how they differ from the stock cams.

1013651
Duration: 245 / 262°
Valve Lift: 8.25 / 9.95mm
Peak Angle: 113° / 108°
Timing: -9/36° / 36/-1°
Lift @ TDC: 0.30 / 0.95mm

Here are the intake cams 3651 Intakes on the left and stock on the right.

You can visually see the difference in duration @ peak between the two which indicates how long the valve stays open and the difference in lift where the overall lobes in comparison are: 3651 Intake = 1.742" vs Stock Intake = 1.717"

These are the exhaust cams where the difference seems more apparent.

Again, you can visually notice the difference in duration and overall cam lobe. 3651 Exhaust = 1.804" vs Stock Exhaust = 1.783"

I will soon provide a before and after dyno... =) 

[badger5]

mine are still in their box..

coming soon hopefully.

hope they work well for you Don.

[Don®]

Thanks, should wake up the midrange and top end.

[badger5]

My specs... just so they're in the same catcams thread. - comparison
3651 -----> My specials
Duration: 245 / 262° ----->246 / 268°
Valve Lift: 8.25 / 9.95mm ----->10.00 / 9.25mm
Peak Angle: 113° / 108° ----->
Timing: -9/36° / 36/-1° ----->
Lift @ TDC: 0.30 / 0.95mm ----->0.26 / 1.51mm

******************************************************

ENGINE TYPE   :   AUDI 4cyl20v Turbo           
      INLET         EXHAUST   
Valve clearance (hot)   :   0.00   mm      0.00   mm
                        (cold)   :   0.00   mm (+0,00 / 0,05)      0.05   mm (+0,05 / 0,10)
CAM LIFT   :   9.25   mm      10.00   mm
ROCKER ARM RATIO   :   1.00         1.00   
VALVE LIFT   :   9.25   mm      10.00   mm
                 
DURATION @ 0.1mm Valve lift   :   268   °      246   °
DURATION @ 1.0mm Valve lift   :   226   °      210   °
PEAK DIFF.: maxlift @   :   108   ° ATDC      116   ° BTDC
Valve lift at TDC w/o clearance   :   1.51   mm      0.26   mm
                 
1. w/o clearance at   :   0.10   mm valve lift      0.10   mm valve lift
      Valve opens   :   21   ° BTDC      56   ° BBDC
      Valve closes   :   67   ° ABDC      10   ° ATDC
                 
2. w/o clearance at   :   1.00   mm valve lift      1.00   mm valve lift
      Valve opens   :   6   ° BTDC      41   ° BBDC
      Valve closes   :   41   ° ABDC      -11   ° ATDC
                 
VALVE SPRINGS                 
      partnr.   :   -         -   
      fitted length   :   -   mm      -   mm
RETAINERS partnr.   :   -         -   
CAM FOLLOWERS partnr.   :   -         -   
                 
REMARKS   :   B/A TDC= before/after top dead centre           
      B/A BDC= before/after bottom dead centre           

[Don®]

Nice, thanks. You have a bit more duration and lift 

[badger5]

wonder what the less lift on exhaust mine have will do..

[Don®]

Here are a set of www.sdr-research.com cams (Revolvers) that are going into my buddy's car. They are 248°/258° which seems like higher lift. I don't have the specs of them and I may have them sent to Bob for him to run them through the cam doctor.

You can see how the open and closing ramp are different from the cats, Bob had mentioned it slows the duration a bit before and after reaching peak.

The exhaust cam look similiar to the cat exhaust ones.

Here are the specs from http://www.revolvercams.com/

Part Number: rev.058.248/258
Application: VW / Audi 1.8liter turbo, 4 cylinder 20 valve
Duration / Intake: 248º
Duration / Exhaust: 258º
Valve Lift / Intake: 8.9 mm
Valve Lift / Exhaust: 10.5 mm
Notes: Hydraulic lash, no adjustment necessary

[kilmer420]

Here are a set of www.sdr-research.com cams (Revolvers) that are going into my buddy's car. They are 248°/258° which seems like higher lift. I don't have the specs of them and I may have them sent to Bob for him to run them through the cam doctor.
You can see how the open and closing ramp are different from the cats, Bob had mentioned it slows the duration a bit before and after reaching peak.

sounds intersting...more info would be cool

[bobqzzi]

My specs... just so they're in the same catcams thread. - comparison
3651 -----> My specials
Duration: 245 / 262° ----->246 / 268°
Valve Lift: 8.25 / 9.95mm ----->10.00 / 9.25mm
Peak Angle: 113° / 108° ----->
Timing: -9/36° / 36/-1° ----->
Lift @ TDC: 0.30 / 0.95mm ----->0.26 / 1.51mm

******************************************************

ENGINE TYPE   :   AUDI 4cyl20v Turbo           
      INLET         EXHAUST   
Valve clearance (hot)   :   0.00   mm      0.00   mm
                        (cold)   :   0.00   mm (+0,00 / 0,05)      0.05   mm (+0,05 / 0,10)
CAM LIFT   :   9.25   mm      10.00   mm
ROCKER ARM RATIO   :   1.00         1.00   
VALVE LIFT   :   9.25   mm      10.00   mm
                 
DURATION @ 0.1mm Valve lift   :   268   °      246   °
DURATION @ 1.0mm Valve lift   :   226   °      210   °
PEAK DIFF.: maxlift @   :   108   ° ATDC      116   ° BTDC
Valve lift at TDC w/o clearance   :   1.51   mm      0.26   mm
                 
1. w/o clearance at   :   0.10   mm valve lift      0.10   mm valve lift
      Valve opens   :   21   ° BTDC      56   ° BBDC
      Valve closes   :   67   ° ABDC      10   ° ATDC
                 
2. w/o clearance at   :   1.00   mm valve lift      1.00   mm valve lift
      Valve opens   :   6   ° BTDC      41   ° BBDC
      Valve closes   :   41   ° ABDC      -11   ° ATDC
                 
VALVE SPRINGS                 
      partnr.   :   -         -   
      fitted length   :   -   mm      -   mm
RETAINERS partnr.   :   -         -   
CAM FOLLOWERS partnr.   :   -         -   
                 
REMARKS   :   B/A TDC= before/after top dead centre           
      B/A BDC= before/after bottom dead centre           

I like the look of those.  i'll have to ask about getting a set.

[badger5]

i just asked them what they would reccommend from their range for the spec motor I gave them, expected boost levels, power hopes etc and they sent these... it was only when they arrived I realised I could'nt match them to thier catalogue.. so asked.. Special for your spec.. no extra charge, and only 7 days to get em too.
Top service I think.

[Don®]

Top service indeed.

[O2VW18T]

What cam's will work good with my set-up. It will be going into my AEB head adn my turbo set-up will get a custom GT35R .63 with all the supporting hardware

[bobqzzi]

What cam's will work good with my set-up. It will be going into my AEB head adn my turbo set-up will get a custom GT35R .63 with all the supporting hardware

I'd say CAT 3653 or 3652.  I'm doing an A4 engine now with 30R and 3653s- shooting for 400 pump, 500 race

[O2VW18T]

yeah i want about 450-475 pump and 550 race if not more. 

[Don®]

Gents, just trying to work out my schedule between the Dyno for the cams and intake and I want to clean all the carbon if any from the cyl before doing so.

[bobqzzi]

Okay, I've decided to repost (from Vortex) the various cam specs for 1.8T cams I've measured.  The second post is of the revolver cams

Here are the printouts for the 1.8T cams I have measured:

CAT 101 3651, smallest hydro in the Cat line-up


Intake of CAT 100 3652 largest hydro, (used in my project engine) compared to stock Intake


Exhaust of CAT 100 3652 largest hydro, (used in my project engine) compared to stock exhaust


CAT 100 3756, smallest solid lifter grind


CAT 100 3758  very large solid lifter grind


EuroSpec 260/268



Modified by bobqzzi at 1:34 PM 4-30-2006

[bobqzzi]

Arman Nejati was kind enough to send me his Revolver cams (rev.058.248/258) to measure.  Below are the results.  Please bear in mind that you have to tell the cam doctor what the intake and exhaust centerlines are, and this info is not on the revolver site.  I went with 113 and 108, which are stock. 




This is a pretty healthy cam- much larger than the CAT 3651, and with more duration than the CAT 3653.  It is smaller than the CAT 3652.  While I've never installed a set, I don't these would be appropriate for a stock ECU car unless it was a custum tune.

[20V18Tnut]

Bob, do you have specs for stock cams by chance?

[bobqzzi]

They are above, look carefully at the description.

[20V18Tnut]

ok, thanks.

[k0mpresd]

ok..i did a little reading

im thinking about going w/ 3651's

i just have a couple questions first

qedpower.com says "sport Mild Street cam, good for VVT cars with stock management"...my car is an atw engine code and is non-vvt, stock ecu

3653 says "HYDR: sport Excellent grind offering good power throughout the midrange. No VVT"

but bob says he'd choose 3651's for a daily driver, http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1292341

my set up is 1.8l displacement w/ a 3076r and 630s..daily driven

is 3651 my best choice and is it going to be ok since im non-vvt?..i would assume so..i just want to make sure...and any other info you care to share is much appreciated

[bobqzzi]

3651s will work great

[transient]

Don, any juicy before/after dynos yet, or are your gnomes still working hard to get all that carbon off??

[Don®]

Not yet unfortunately  Been sorting out a few things before hand and working on getting the intake mani's out as well as manufacturing process for the exhaust mani on the raddo 1.8T.

I will schedule some dyno time sometime next week.

[transient]

no rush.. I just wanted to see what the benefit would be so that I can start to semi-plan a new powerplant..

[TurboGTiandZX12R]

I am curious how much the power band would shift using the 1003652 cams vs. the 1003651 cams.

Any ideas Bob? are 3652's completely non streetable?

[bobqzzi]

The 3652s are streetable..I got mine to idle fine at 1000.  i'm not sure they would work very well with stock management.   For a daily driver with standalone, I'd go 3653- they may work okay with stock management and a custom tune as well, but I haven't tried it.  All this assumes ar turbo large enough to take advantage.

[TurboGTiandZX12R]

The 3652s are streetable..I got mine to idle fine at 1000.  i'm not sure they would work very well with stock management.   For a daily driver with standalone, I'd go 3653- they may work okay with stock management and a custom tune as well, but I haven't tried it.  All this assumes ar turbo large enough to take advantage.

What so it won't be good on my KO3 on my AWD engine???

JK Bob!! I have a GT2871R 56trim .86ar turbine housing, AEB head with CATS springs, and 8000rpm rev limiter. Still waiting on the 007 intake mani. Right now I see 26psi at about 5200rpm.

If I do cams, I want to do it once. Not buy a set, then find out later that I would have been happer with a different set.

[TurboGTiandZX12R]

one more thing, Is Idle the only real issue with running the stock ECU?

[bobqzzi]

one more thing, Is Idle the only real issue with running the stock ECU?

There may be some light throttle cruise issues..but probably not.